Interview with Steve

I conducted this interview with Steve Boese in June, a short time after I first met him in May at Civic Space Park. Steve has a wealth of tech knowledge and a history of lending these skills to the long work of community organizing. One of the websites he was an architect of in  2006, www.beyondexgay.com, provided a safe online space for survivors of religious abuse and conversion therapy to share experiences and resources. In Phoenix, neighbors look to Steve for accurate and comprehensive information about happenings like meals, meetings, events, showers, and respite centers. Steve moves through the world with compassion, grit, and the remarkable drive to leave everything better than he found it. 

What follows is a conversation about being pushed to the margins in one of the hottest cities on the planet. Steve and I spoke about his eviction from SOS (Safe Outdoor Space) and about carceral rules and prohibitions in shelters, respite centers, and libraries. He recounted instances of apathetic staff losing or trashing essential possessions like food, storage keys, and bike keys. We discussed the protean nature of shelter policies—one night something is allowed, the next morning, forbidden—and the emotional whiplash this produces. Throughout our conversation, Steve asserts the dignity of himself and his beloveds, and the horizon of hope they are oriented towards. 

This interview has been edited for length and clarity. 

M: Steve, what has your experience been in city facilities, shelter facilities, or heat relief facilities?

SB: My first exposure was 2016 into 2017, primarily at CASS. I returned to CASS again in 2022 into 2023, and most recently I have been more outdoors. I did 7 months with SOS: Safe Outdoor Space. So, different things, different venues, and time just outdoors. In some ways, my evolution has been more and more towards being in control of my own environment by sleeping outside. There are things that are very beneficial for my mental health, for example: not having my bag searched once every single day or more. Because at CASS, at SOS, at basically every structured shelter and at the summertime heat respite center, your bag is searched every time you come in. And some of the rules are just kind of strange. 

I did check out the 24/7 respite center that’s running this summer, early on while there weren’t many people there. And I was impressed by having more space than last year and room for people to spread out. There was a staff member telling people—and there were only like 6 or 8 of us, most of us who knew each other—that if we were to go out on the patio area or to the restroom, we must carry 100% of our possessions with us. And that made no sense! We all knew each other pretty much, you know, you track as carefully as you can that there aren’t folks who are likely to be here just to steal stuff from other people. 

And then my second time just trying it out, I made the point like I often do when it comes to bag checks: if you need my backpack emptied or partially emptied, I would like to do that myself. And I would like to put my own possessions back in it. I have a certain organization necessary to be able to function. And at the 24/7 heat respite, I was told absolutely not, we are going to handle all of your things, we are going to empty as much as we choose, and you are not even going to put your stuff back in. As it turned out I left that day without the key to my storage unit, it had fallen out somewhere. I figured it wasn’t worth trying to go back and ask “Did you find a key?” 

Anyway overall, I think the valley is doing some good things, I see a comprehensive attempt to serve the needs of homeless folks. I like to call us home-adjacent because to me, I’m never homeless, I choose where to lay my head down, I’m always surrounded by homes, there are ways to make whatever spot I have for the night home, it’s just not the traditional sense. 

But in the home-adjacent community, one of the things I notice most is so much about services feel like they’re being drawn down to us. From up on high, we’re going to deliver this to you and you’re going to follow whatever rules in a fashion that I just bristle at, from the standpoint that so many of us have been functional, so many of us have lived productive lives, have run households, have done that all our lives just fine! So why in this temporary circumstance is it that somebody else has to make all the decisions for us?!

"Rules written as if they need to suit the needs of feral children who are taught how to live civilized lives again. I know that is not written into things, but that is too often the underlying ideology: “Oh we have to protect homeless or home adjacent people from themselves.”

There are shelters where they really proscribe what foods can be brought in. No fresh foods, no sandwiches, no fruit, no cheese. Some of those rules are just insane in the context. Especially at SOS, that was the shelter that was really welcoming of couples: longtime married or couples that had been partnered for a long time could share a tent, where you can’t in many other shelters. And yet these heads of household—who had run their own households, taken care of elders, raised children, kept clean kitchens, the whole thing—are treated with what I call the feral child syndrome. Rules written as if they need to suit the needs of feral children who are taught how to live civilized lives again. I know that is not written into things, but that is too often the underlying ideology: “Oh we have to protect homeless or home adjacent people from themselves.”

M: It’s this kind of paternalism, in the type of services provided—like you all don’t know what’s best for yourselves, instead we’re going to prescribe something for you, in a way that’s very infantilizing and dehumanizing. At CASS, was that the case? With similar arbitrary rules?

SB: My experience was that it could be very arbitrary. One of the examples was coming through for the bag check, there were some nights that there was a supervisor standing right there demanding every bag had to be emptied to the bottom, so that whoever was doing the check could actually see the bottom with no extraneous items. So there were nights when I thought, I've got to empty the backpack out and put it in the airport style bins, so they can look at everything in it and I can repack it after. And just a few days later with the same supervisor there, I’m emptying my backpack into the bins, and I get castigated for it: “What the fuck are you doing!? You don’t have to do that!”

It could just be very different. I saw staff being frustrated with it as well, particularly with SOS—no rules were written down in any sort of complete sense. They read some rules to you at intake, and you had to sign off, and they say “we can make a copy for you” but you would never see the copy. I can understand this a bit with SOS because I got there when it was not quite a year in operation, it was still finding its own. But when I left after two years of operation, they were still changing rules to staff by texting or emailing staff: “New rule, do this, enforce this.” And the staff were pulling their hair out on a regular basis, because there was no comprehensive list, even a simple list, of what had changed. You know, post that kind of stuff, keep us [tenants] informed!

I finally got booted [from SOS] because I was following rules as they existed last August and September, but they had changed along the way, about nights out. And I had violated the new rules. I got no prior notice in my tent: “By the way Steve, you’re getting to the edge of what’s acceptable…” I just came home on a Friday night and they said, “Oh, you don’t live here anymore.” And not only that, they said, “You can only retrieve your possessions, everything that was in your tent, on a weekday morning.” 

So there are just things that could be arbitrary. And that was another lost key, oddly enough, because I had received a donated bicycle, a simple cruiser, but I’m really happy to have it, and a donated bike lock, so I could keep it safe while I was out. Well, in gathering all my possessions and putting them into a bin, [SOS staff] missed the bike lock key. So a brand new, $35 lock had to be destroyed in order for me to take the bicycle with me. 

And the person who was in charge, my ouster, was somebody that I respected tremendously and I felt synergy with. I had really appreciated Ashley, we had some conversations, and she would mention that staff get rule changes really informally in ways that are hard to track and can be very frustrating. She wanted to get them written down. She was saying, “This is part of what we have to do.” But I was hearing from her that it’s still a fight, it’s still a fight to get rules on paper. 

“And in my ideal world, more of the service providers would realize they are reaching into robust communities, as opposed to reaching down to fix things for people who are dysfunctional.” 

M: But it’s so ridiculous to hold somebody to rules that are not even expressed to them. Or to evict you because you violated rules that you were not made aware of. And just illustrates how much power these organizations hold over people. It’s the same with landlords when they arbitrarily pick what little clause in a lease they are going to weaponize to evict someone! 

SB: It can be super challenging and just feel unjust! Their food rules were so frustrating to me, because the food they serve 3 meals a day didn’t always treat my gut well. And I needed to use my EBT to get the food that I did need, which included more cheese and more fresh vegetables. But in order to do that, I had to strategize my entire day around at some point I’ve got to go to the grocery store to buy my food, and now I get the worst deals because I’m only buying a limited quantity and [grocery stores] want you to buy 5 of whatever it is because you’re driving your car, right?

So I gotta strategize how to buy just enough food to eat that day, and eat it completely because if I’m going back [to SOS] at 10:30 and I run short on time and haven’t had time to eat the things I bought that day, I’ve got to throw them away. With the budget I’m running, I try to keep EBT at 8 to 9 dollars a day, that’s really expensive to throw away food! 

M: You wouldn't think, from an outside perspective, that shelter staff would be limiting life-giving materials like food in a place where people are living. Food is one of the necessities!

SB: The thing I’d like to see more of in services to the home-adjacent, to the folks that are living on the edge, is an appreciation for the community that people bring to every situation. Because in my experience, especially in the last year and a half, I was just blown away last year meeting some of the people, and some of them young—20, 22, 25—being thrown into difficult situations. And yet, with the 24-hour respite center at the library last year, there was a culture that developed among the people of all ages there, that the first thing you greet anybody with is: “Are you okay? Is there anything you need?” You know, we don’t always have everything hidden away that we could supply to meet the need, but there was an amazing groundswell of community, of people looking out for each other, learning each other’s stories, looking for solutions together if they could find any, looking for ways to support each other. 

M: So what you’re saying is the people are already organized, there are already communities of care and autonomy and love between neighbors. Even in spite of increasingly punitive or hostile environments that they’re forced to take shelter in, like the respite center. 

SB: And people start figuring out who they can go to. I have always done database and spreadsheet and tech and that kind of thing–so I keep lists in my head of things and I think in terms of rows and columns! That’s just what works for me. And people would start to figure out, Oh Steve! What’s happening today? What’s the next meal? And as they were asking I’d be figuring out and cataloging that in my head. 

In my experience there are so many people who are that kind of support to each other. Who are wanting to know, wanting to reach out, wanting to have solutions at the ready. 

M: Do you think from all that organization and relationship building, Phoenix home-adjacent people are replicating the same type of organization we’ve seen in reading Downtown Blues: A Skid Row Reader and The National Union of the Homeless: A Brief History? 

SB: It really resonated with me in the National Union of the Homeless reading, they said there seemed to be a shift as crack cocaine and some of the other really pernicious drug trends developed, that it became more difficult for the community to rise up as autonomous and self-supporting and asserting itself. 

I would really love to see more of the understanding that the service organizations support that [same end of demobilization and alienation]. It’s too easy to engender dependence–Oh you need to depend on us, we’re going to tell you what to do and do it in this order…

Like an example is, the shelters, to my understanding every single one of them is a closed system. Nobody can come visit somebody who is staying in a shelter, nobody can get within 50 feet often. In some of the publicity the city and the supportive organizations like to say we’ve got this converted motel, so people can have a motel experience or we’ve got these apartments, we have this experience that is much more like home. 

When, if it’s a motel, any visitors are going to be blocked from even entering the parking lot. No visitor is going to be allowed to come into the lobby and say hey, I’m here to see so-and-so or I’m here to pick up so-and-so. Can’t do that! 

Once you are residing in one of the converted motels, you’re going to get a knock on the door 4 to 5 times a day for a room check. And at any of those points staff can come into the room saying they're inspecting for drugs or contraband or whatever. I’ve had friends who were limited in how much of their wardrobe they could bring into the motel room. 

M: Are you kidding? So what do you do with the rest of your clothes if you’re not allowed to bring them in?

SB: You hope you have a storage unit, but there are people that just have to cull whatever they’ve got, to get it down to a bare-minimum. 

I’ve only had a storage unit for two months at this point, and it’s a lifesaver. Because I did have my tent, and I really appreciated that for my own little space, my own little niche, that I could keep in the order I wanted to keep it. And that was amazing for me, it sparked routines. I know where everything is, I put it in certain places in the tent. And in the morning I’m repacking the backpack, exactly as it needs to be.

And some of the transitional [housing] options, they get so regimented on what you can and can’t do. Even staff sometimes—like on the food thing, on the clutter thing, on different issues—will say “Well you know how homeless people are, don’t you?” I’ve actually had people use this kind of terminology! It’s like, who are you speaking to?! I’ve run my households, I’ve fixed them, I’ve raised kids…it can get frustrating when you feel equated with the lowest possible denominator, and you need to comply. I think if you’re setting rules to help people develop discipline you can work with where people are at instead of just commanding some of the most limited of options. 

M: There’s no respect for the dignity of the people these organizations and staff are supposed to be “helping.” 

SB: It can come across as mixed messages. You go to the CBI and some of the other service providers websites and a lot of them are amazing and beautiful. They’re talking about compassion and empathy and we want to lift people up. And yet some of the policies and procedures don’t speak to that! 

Another thing that gets under my skin. It was especially a thing at SOS, but as I understand it at other shelters and transitional housing as well, the consequences for not complying with program rules can often be you’re kicked out for 24 hours! So, you’re trying to support folks getting out of sleeping on the streets, by putting them back on the streets?! In one case, it was a friend of mine–who was approaching 80, getting around with a walker, total character, such a blast to hang out with–shelter staff put her out for 24 hours with her walker on a hot night. How just can that possibly be? To put a person in her shoes, out on the street?  

When I was booted out of SOS I instantly lost that community. Neighbors of mine in our little tent village were asking staff “What happened to Steve? What’s going on?” and the answer was “None of your business. I can give you no information.”

There should be a little more support for people being connected. If you’re going to boot me, can I put my name and phone number up on a bulletin board somewhere so people have a couple weeks where they can get back in touch with me? 

And with my dream organization that I’m working on, Connected Powered Up People (CPUP), people in our community need support for staying connected, understanding how to keep their Android phones on the same number, or at least preserving their contact list, preserving access to their Google account. I lost access to my Google account for 8 months, and it was 15 years worth of my resumes, documents, and all of my key things needed for a job search. I want to support people with some of the technical phone things, in case of disconnection or emergency (ICODE). We should be carrying around backups for our information, to retain key numbers and our beloveds’ names. There are certain things you need, like when you’re calling hospitals or the police to check up on a friend who has disappeared. I want to support the community in developing awareness of how to take care of ourselves. To keep those pieces of data available to our beloveds. And I want to consolidate and establish a master resource list of meals, meetings, support, services, showers. There’s so much going on in the valley! So that’s kind of the first thing that I’m tasked with. 

M: That’s so important, I’ve seen people lose their phones and not be able to get in touch with anyone they know, or be locked out of their Google accounts because they don’t have a phone to receive a code, just that endless loop of frustration, where there’s essential documents behind this impermeable wall. I’m excited to see what you come up with!

SB: The ultimate dream, I want to have a VW electric bus packed with tech equipment so that I can bring in charging blocks at a place like Civic Space Park, to set up a charging hub for anyone who needs to charge anything. Bring a WiFi hotspot, so people can have a strong signal right here in the middle of our gathering. Have a printer, so people can print whatever they need. Libraries are really good in the valley in many ways, unless you have a cart, if you are traveling with a lot of stuff you cannot get in the door. 

I love my libraries, and I have basically been kicked out of every one I love at least once. Because being drowsy is seemingly a crime. I get hassled for being drowsy. I have been told by security people, “Don’t close your eyes.” And, my doctor disagrees! 

M: Most people would agree! All of us sleep, famously, it is necessary to sleep and blink over and over again. 

SB: At any rate, if I’m toodling around town, maybe I can inspire other people to do similar things. So that people see me pulling into a certain venue and setting up for 3 hours to get phones fully charged and using good tech to make sure that the charging can happen efficiently, using good supports, so if someone has trouble with their phone they have someone to talk to. I need volunteers, I need to build up all kinds of things. But I’ve been really inspired by some of the service providers in the valley with the things that they’re doing. And it gives me a sense of what is possible.

M: I’m excited to see what you come up with. Do you have any closing thoughts to end this interview?

SB: For me the journey is ongoing. I had, what to me was a very frustrating experience; I’ve had a series of oddly—you know how articles sometimes will list all of the major life events that can really mess with you, can make you different, that are not easy to recover from? Well I went through a few weeks where I lost my place to live, which impacted my ability to get enough sleep for the job I had just gotten, until they fired me from the job, and in both cases it meant losing community connections! Closed system at the shelter, I can no longer just run into the people I care about, and I’m not going back to the folks who fired me and told me I was slow and not doing my job. And I lost my phone. And there was a break-up in there too! There were all of these crazy things that should have been major life events. 

And I need to communicate with my family back in Minnesota, my 86-year-old mother is a worrier! I was trying to explain to her that, yes this all happened, but I am doing fine. I feel strong, assertive, I am doing the things I want to do and in some ways some of these supposed calamities opened doors for me having new opportunities. My mom seemed to take that in, and two weeks after one of the very positive emails, at the end of May, she called Phoenix PD to say that I was missing. I get to points where I’m just pulling my hair out, like I’m fine, this is life as I experience it! I am not complaining about the life I have to live, I am so equipped. But for several days there I was on a list of missing people with Phoenix PD which is not where I want to be. 

I think, for me, and what I want for my beloveds, what I want for us is to be fierce. I want us to be fighting for what’s right, working for progress in the little things and the big things. I want us to be kicking ass!